Now, 30 some odd years later, I notice that England is still here. Her standard of living seems to be just fine. Her health care system is better than ours. There doesn't seem to be a mass exodus from her shores.
And I'm not sure any more that Republicans have all the answers. I know that it's not as simple as some of them make it seem. (I have my liberal sons, and a tendency to try to see the other side, to thank for that.)
The fact is that some segments of the economy don't lend themselves to free market forces. Education is one of those, and, I believe, health care. And the simplistic statement, "get the government out of our faces, and we'll be fine" is just not true any more, if it ever was.
By the way, I'm going to risk total embarrasment and make a prediction -- landslide.
10 comments:
Good points. I like the way Obama put it: "Government cannot solve all our problems, but what it should do is that which we cannot do for ourselves."
About your prediction, you can submit your prediction here: http://projects.washingtonpost.com/2008/pick-your-president/
Here's my prediction.
I don't see why healthcare is an issue that concerns the government. Simply to state that it costs too much for the average American is untrue and simplistic.
The bleeding heart argument that everyone should have equal opportunities for care is true. The thought that not everyone is getting access to care is false. In most cases, medicine takes care of those who cannot pay. Ask the uninsured guy that we put $20,000 worth of stents in. Over half of the patients at Saint Louis University Hospital are uninsured. There are multiple routes for an individual to get financial assistance should they befall poor health sans insurance.
I also will argue with anyone who states the United States is not the leader in medical research, education and innovation, as well as health care. The rest of the world clearly has the level of health care as a result of the United States.
Honestly, I think most of Obama's promises will be abandoned if he takes office. Unfortunately most politicians really are full of $#!*, telling us what we want to hear so that they can get into office. But I'd rather have it this way as opposed to how things are done in Russia where elections are even more of a farce.
There are too many organizations that will fight against socialization of medicine: most medical societies, big Pharm, insurance companies, and even bottom feeders like trial lawyers.
I'll break bread with you regardless how you feel about socialized medicine. I just don't think it will ever be a reality.
-Al
(Jenny's husband, 4th year med student)
Her health care system is better than ours?!?
I'm sorry, I just refuse to accept that statement. We also had an interviewer in Albany try to tell us that Russia had a better health care system than the US. Really?!?
I have tried so hard to be patient with this blog and even tried to accept a lot of the views offered. What is hard for me is that the democratic side seems to concede absolutely nothing. I really cannot understand the mentality where one thinks and believes that their candidate is flawless, their ideas flawless, etc. I really just don't get it.
Jed I appreciate your attempt to try to even things out with your last post about the economy, but I don't think this blog will ever be anything close to evened out.
When measured by life expectancy and infant mortality, the United Kingdom's citizen's are healthier. And the United Kingdom spends less than half what the US does on health care per-capita. So unless your metric for "better" is more expensive and less effective then yes, the United Kingdom's health care systems is doing better than ours.
I know what you're going to say: "But our health care system is more innovative." Yes, I concede that. But that innovation isn't making our health care system more effective if it isn't making us healthier or reducing our costs.
Or, you might say that "we're not healthy because we're fat". But if our health care system is really the best in the world, then why isn't our health care system more effective at helping us get more healthy?
You complain that the blog is too left leaning, but those that of us that lean left have gone out of our way to back up our opinions with facts. If you disagree, then please present the facts upon which you base your opinions. I'm frankly fed up with conservatives' complaints about bias, yet unwillingness to discuss facts. Perhaps it's true what Stephen Colbert said: "Reality has a well-known liberal bias."
Emerson said, "Most people think they're thinking, when they're only re-arranging their prejudices." And that's neither a Republican nor a Democratic condition. It's a human condition, and we all suffer from it, even those of us who try hard to get the facts straight.
Unbelievable.
If you are so all-knowing and 'know' what I am going to say than why do I need to back anything up with fact? Before you lord your intelligence over me let me tell you that I am educated. I graduated with a degree from a university. Your belittlement is gross and your arrogance is nauseating.
I won't bore you with the mundane details of my life, but on a day to day basis I don't have the TIME to sit here and type up article after article oozing with the meaty facts that you crave. I'm lucky that I have time to make sure that we aren't living in squalor and that there is dinner on the table. So sorry if I just throw you the occasional fact here or there.
Are you honestly suggesting that it is our medical system that is in charge of making sure that we don't completely glutton ourselves with food? Do you think that somebody needs to hold you by the hand and tell you what to eat? So every American needs 24 hour supervision because they sure can't be depended upon to be responsible. That would be asking way, way too much.
If you are so sick and fed-up of the moronic panderings of the conservatives than you and your brothers should have made this a private blog so you could practice your Obama hero worship amongst yourselves. That way you could have spared yourselves the pain and agony of reading somebody's views, and yes, OPINIONS, that disagree or conflict with your own.
Sorry Jed. I tried to play nicely. It didn't work. When attacked, I'm gonna attack back.
I've been an ultra conservative most of my adult life, and it was a religion almost, so I've been there, done that. My sons have helped me learn to see the other arguments. Alex got me reading Paul Krugman (no! my brother-in-law would disown me). Alex also got me to read that book on markets which points out that some segments need more public regulation that others.
Less government isn't necessarily good, and more government isn't necessarily bad. It's the kind of government that's important.
To the first Al & Jenny comment above (the one that was subsequently removed by the author): thank you for sharing some research that raises a counterpoint to the discussion. And no, I'm not opposed to hearing your opinions. I appreciate you expressing them. I only asked that you share the reasoning behind them. Thanks for doing that. (I'm curious why you subsequently deleted the comment.)
It sounds like we agree that Americans are less healthy than the British. Our disagreement is about why we're less healthy. The research you cited gives compelling evidence that the difference in health isn't because the UK has less poverty. It suggest that the difference has a lot to do with what we eat.
American eating habits might explain the difference in life expectancy. But they don't explain the difference in infant mortality.
About your suggestion that genetics might explain the difference in health: I don't find that argument compelling. Our genetic makeup is not very different from that of citizens of Western European nations (after all, that's where most of our ancestors came from). Yet their health statistics exceed ours without exception.
To the latter Al & Jenny comment above: I owe you an apology. I'm sorry I offended you.
I'm not asking that you type up articles. I'm just asking to understand the basis for your opinions. I responded to your refusal to accept a statement my father made without offering any basis for your refusal. I gave you evidence to support his statement and asked for evidence that supports yours.
No, I'm not suggesting that the government should hold my hand and tell me what to eat. But I would like the government to do something for me that I can't do for myself: ensure that the ingredients and the production methods behind the food that's available to us is safe and healthy. We have agencies chartered to do that. I'm asking that they represent the interests of consumers rather than those of the corporations they're supposed to regulate. A book called The Omnivore's Dilemma offers a very interesting look at our food chain. Here's a book review if you don't have time to read the whole book.
As discussed above, perhaps differences in the food that we eat explain differences in our life expectancies. Could it be that other advanced nations to a better job of regulating their food chains? Could it be that because those nations bear the cost of their citizens' health care, they have more of an incentive to ensure the health and safety of their food chains?
I don't know. But I can tell you than I found a noticeable difference in the ingredients, the freshness, and the taste of food that's available in the UK versus the food that's available to us here.
One more thing: I think the comment about Obama worship was unfounded. Those of us that support Obama have been very clear about where we stand on the issues and why those positions lead us to favor Obama. We have never suggested that we would support Obama unconditionally, regardless of his positions. We have not made this blog about personality or about conspiracy theories. We have tried hard to keep the discussion to the issues.
Jed has made multiple requests of conservative contributors to explain why they're voting the way they are. We don't necessarily expect you to convince us any more than we expect you to be convinced by our positions. But we do think we all benefit from the dialogue.
I, for one, have been disappointed by the lack of posts explaining why you support McCain.
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